Breaking Through the Gay Glass Ceiling: Daniel Franzese

When Daniel Franzese played Damian in Tina Fey’s classic Mean Girls 16 years ago, little did he know this this character would still be celebrated today. However, portraying one of film history’s most iconic gay best friends and delivering some of pop culture’s most recognized lines did result in some personal setbacks. According to Franzese, he hit Hollywood’s “gay glass ceiling,” which left him unable to do anything but play gay.

Back then, LGBTQ character were often depicted as broad stereotypes meant to provoke laughs with their stereotypical sass. Since Franzese refused to go backwards and take on roles that were considered regressive, he was unemployed for several years. Unusual for Hollywood, he stuck to his guns instead of capitalizing on his notoriety.

Fortunately, the glass ceiling did break and, Franzese was offered the type of role he was holding out for—Eddie in HBO’s Looking. Franzese has also gone on to create several live comedy and stand-up performances and recently started a podcast called Yass Jesus! with former televangelist Azariah Southworth where they explore what it means to be a Christ loving member of the LGBTQ community in these divided times.

OUT FRONT had the opportunity to talk more with Franzese about the podcast, growing up in a Christin household, playing an openly gay character while closeted, and how Looking not only broke down barriers for the HIV-positive community, but gave the bear community some much-needed TV representation.Hi, Danny! Thank you so much taking some time to chat with me. How are have you been holding during this pandemic?
It’s been interesting for me because my life has been on the road for the past two years. So, to actually be sitting in my home, it’s an interesting process. I have done more things I probably wouldn’t have done if I wasn’t on tour, and I miss the things I was doing on tour. So, it’s weird. I am grateful to have my health, and I really feel compassionate about all of the people who are ill right now and all of the people who are essential workers out there working. I’m, like, so in awe of what everyone’s doing, but creatively, I am having a lot of fun trying new things and taking some time to write.

You are the creator of several live comedy shows. Are you currently working on something new?
I have been putting a lot of effort into my Italian mom character. I did “Shit Italian Moms Say” on YouTube, like, seven years ago, and it was such a huge hit. It has millions and millions of followers and fans, and people ask me all the time to do it. When I was in my apartment, I’m like, what do I have here; I can use in my living room? I had to look at what I had left, and I managed to put a mask and gloves on and go to CVS to get a tube of lipstick and come back and dust off my shake-and-go wig to put something together. It’s been really fun. Besides that, I have been homeschooling my niece in second grade every day.

Unfortunately, COVID-19 has caused several Pride festivals to either cancel or go virtual. How are you celebrating this year?
You know, I lost a lot of chances to go to places for Pride this year because of what’s going on. I was supposed to go to Scotland and all these other places. Since none of that is happening, I am just going to celebrate Pride wherever I am. I think that is the true essence of Pride. I did some fun things on social media and celebrated in a way where we can all coexist.

What does Pride personally mean to you?
I think Pride is an interesting name for what I feel is a celebration. It’s a time that we can all be together and celebrate, but the first Pride was a riot, as the saying goes. It’s fun, but we have to remember the purpose of it. I think it’s a day of acknowledgement and a day of thanks for our elders and celebration of where we are in this moment today, but also awareness of all the things that will happen in the future. I love the booths, the information, and the access to everything that happens at these events.

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I was told that you started a podcast not too long ago called Yass, Jesus! Can you tell us more about it?
When the Pulse shooting happened, I was really devastated by it. Even though I’m from New York, I grew up in Florida, and many of those people were just like people I have dated, been friends with, or known. It just hit me in a way that a lot of the other big tragedies hadn’t. I was looking for a prayer for the LGBTQ community, and I couldn’t find one. So, I started thinking about how all these so-called Christians have all these things against LGBTQ people, but then there’s not one prayer for them?

The irony of it just sort of struck me. Then I met Azariah Southworth who is my co-host. He was a televangelist on CBN and had a show called The Remix which was all about Christian music; it was sort of like a TRL. When they found out he was gay, they fired him, and he lost his whole career trajectory. Him and I were both talking about it, and we had some really philosophical conversations. A lot of theological questions that were unanswered.

So, we started to do research together and just hang out, smoke weed and talk about talk about God in a weird way. We were like, some of this should be on tape; then it became a mission. It became something where I felt like, you know, we’re not perfect; we’re not preachers or anything, just some gay dudes who happen to suck d*ck and love the Lord [laughs].

We just want to ask questions and be very real about it. So, we don’t slut shame; we are very sex-positive; we just ask questions and want to find out things. Instead of just asking them privately to Google, we’re asking people who work in theology and people who have specialized in sexuality, spirituality, and kink. Talking to my mom about it and talking to different notable celebrities like Ginger Minj or Daniel Newman and asking what they think. So, our podcast is for people to listen to what we find out while we’re asking things.

You grew up in a Christian household?
I did, which led me to putting myself into conversion therapy. Both Azariah and I are survivors of conversion therapy, and we are adamantly against it. It should be outlawed throughout the whole, entire world. I think that it’s something, even though I had an affirming mom, it pushed me away from my affirming mom because I was advised to tell my mom that it was her fault that I was feeling the way I was feeling.

Conversion therapy has done so many damaging things to our LGBTQ youth, and I know that parents are really misguided by an old, often dangerous patriarchy with a lot of the church structures. They’re dealing with putting these kids in danger. One third of our youth is LGBTQ and homeless. They are being kicked out of their families for religious reasons mostly. I just think that it’s super important that we let people know that God loves you, no matter what. As horrible as it felt to be in the closet all those years, it felt just as horrible to push aside my spirituality. My spirituality and sexuality can be intertwined.

People need to be real and look at the Bible as a text for the modern world, and gay people have a place in there. We found out so many things. Some of the most exciting things were that the word homosexuality was added to the Bible in the 1940s. Just how the way things have been manipulated.

Also, the story of David and Jonathan being a gay love affair and Ruth and Naomi being a lesbian love affair. Both of those being the major covenants in the Bible that people use at heterosexual weddings. So, there’s all this stuff that we uncovered. I think there’s a Leah Remini scientology aspect to it, and we also sort of parody the way that televangelism is, and we have fun with it. We just ask questions and commiserate.

You didn’t come out publicly until 2014. Were religious reasons why you waited so long?
I wouldn’t say that was the entire reason, but I did feel like it was more professional. I felt like there was a glass ceiling that I was meeting in Hollywood when it came to auditions and stuff. I use to play all these different characters. I was up for Turtle in Entourage, parts in The Sopranos and CSI, all these other shows. Then, when I played Damian, I wouldn’t get any of those auditions anymore. I was only getting auditions for stereotypical, exploitative gay characters.

So, do you believe playing Damian hurt your career in ways?
I mean, I can’t curse the thing that made me. That’s an entity, and in a lot of people’s eyes, he’s an icon. So, I can’t diss that, but there was a period of time where things dried up unless I wanted to make fun of being gay.

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How was it to play a visibly queer character like Damian while still in the closet?
It was very difficult. Both Jonathan Bennett and I came out to each other on set, and there were times we would go to strip clubs and pretend we were straight. It was horrible. It was not an easy time for either of us, and I was definitely scared. There was even a guy that I was seeing in Canada before I got this movie, and he showed up on set one day and I pretended like I didn’t know him. I had a lot of problems and issues with how they made me feel, and I have a lot of regrets because of the way that Hollywood made me behave. I was basically told you’ll never work. There’s nothing. There were no rules because there were no gay people on TV. It was a very different time in 2004.

If you would have known that then, would you have still done Mean Girls?
I will tell you this. If I know what I know now then, and I know what it feels like to be out, I would have been out when I did Mean Girls. I would not have cared, and I would have fought even harder. My only regret was not coming out. I should have just been like loud and proud and not cared, but I was very afraid. If I didn’t do one movie a year, I didn’t have rent. Nowadays, I have tons of ways to make money. I do stand-up; I perform all over; I do shows, talks and all kinds of things, but back then, it was like, you didn’t get a show, you didn’t eat.

Why do you think Mean Girls made such an impact on pop culture and had such a lasting influence?
I think there are a few reasons, but I think the main reason is because it was written on a parenting book. Queen Bees and Wannabes by Rosalind Wiseman. That book was the first time I think that it was really outlined what it’s like in girl culture where girls collect up and gang up against other girls, and it was brought to the light in a way that was treated like a psychology experiment. I think the movie itself reflects that. There are really great discussions in that movie that Tina has with the girls in the auditorium. There are some other great themes and discussions that girls needed to talk about for a really long time.

I think it’s very valuable, and it’s studied in psychology classes. A lot of parents show it to their girls to prepare them what it’s going to be like to deal with middle school and high school bullying. Besides that, it was also the first movie to really get the internet treatment. Like, Twitter just started, and memes started to come about, and anything new that came out that was popular, like a new Harry Potter movie, they would spice it with Mean Girls. Hunger Games, The Bachelor—Mean Girls jokes would be in there. Mean Girls is probably meme 101.

Which scene and line from the film is your favorite?
I still really love “I want my pink shirt back” because I ad-libbed that and asked permission to put it in there. I thought it was such a funny callback. So, that’s something that has always been like a treasure of mine, but “she doesn’t even go here” was so funny, I couldn’t wait to get to the day to say that. Like, this is going to interrupt assemblies for the rest of time. The reason I thought it was so, so funny is because if I was a student in high school and this movie came out, I would definitely want to scream that at an assembly.

You eventually landed the role of Eddie in HBO’s Looking. Was that the kind of role you were holding out for?
Yes. I was working with Allee Willis who passed away last year. The Emmy, Tony, Grammy winner who wrote The Color Purple musical. Towards the end of her life, as I was working with her filming for a documentary; she was expressing a lot about the importance of legacy, what to leave behind and how important The Color Purple was to her as something that she feels like will be around way after her. Same with her work with Earth, Wind &Fire and how that will stick around.

Late in life, she didn’t want to work on things that were frivolous. She wanted to work on things that will leave a legacy, and I started thinking about legacy work. Like, what a legacy Damian is for me and some other things I’ve worked on, but I don’t want to do anything too frivolous right now either. I would do theatre in my car, and that would be fun, but I’m not taking myself too seriously. I was really, really, really interested in working on legacy stuff, so I started doing theatre and making my own little films.

I basically left Hollywood for a little bit. I left my agent, my manager, my accountant, my publicist, and I put my phone number on IMDB and went to New York and started doing theatre. I just needed a little break for a while, and then when Looking came around, it was the perfect opportunity to do the exact type of work that I wanted to do.

I think it’s an example to, like, if I wasn’t doing something else, perhaps I would have taken something that when the opportunity for Looking came around, I wouldn’t have gotten it. There were some times where I had to take in some parts and casting directors were like, ‘Man, too bad you did that one, because I was holding you out for this one,’ and the one they were holding me out for or I was their first choice for wasn’t it.

That’s a really hard conundrum. It’s really difficult for an actor to make it in Hollywood if their parents aren’t significantly wealthy or they don’t have ties to the industry already. It’s difficult to come from nothing and stick around in town. So, I had a lot of hard years where I didn’t have any help and had to figure stuff out. My residuals would make ineligible for unemployment, and I couldn’t get a job working as a security guard at Target because I looked like Damian from Mean Girls. Like, what do you do? How do you make money? How do you survive? So, it was a lot of that.

Your character Eddie provided some much-needed bear representation on TV. Why do you think there is still a lack of the bear community in media and culture?
I think there is just a lack of men of size being sexually attractive unless it’s also comedic. There’s a problem with our media right now. There are a lot of guys who have told me that they were into me for my size. Like, fetishists and guys who are really into big guys. They’ve told me that some of the reasons they feel that way was because they saw James Gandolfini, and more than one has mentioned him, because he’s one of the only images of a bigger dude having sex on screen. There’s just not a lot of it.

So, the representation is so low, and I knew for a fact from Damian because there were no queer teens of size in movies that didn’t have to worry about having their head shoved in a toilet or being pushed into a locker. Damian had meant a lot. During the tenth anniversary, the reason I came out was because I got a letter from someone saying that they were beat up for being a sissy and tortured for being chubby. Then Mean Girls came out, and the following year, the popular senior girls first day of freshman year were like, you’re like Damian, come sit with us.

So, it just proves what the representation is. In my life, everything that they’ve ever made fun of me for is a reason that I make money. The reason you like calling people fat or the reason you like making fun of people is because that’s all you ever see happen in movies. Now, with this body positivity thing, women have had a really great opportunity to be seen in a lot of places, and some straight men are making their way in there, but still, the gay, larger male sexualized doesn’t exist anywhere.

So, that is why I was so happy about the work that we were doing in Looking. I was willing to take it to that space because it is important to me that people see that image, and I knew it was working in real time. I was getting messages on Instagram from people that were like, ‘hey, I’ve seen Mean Girls, like, a long time ago and I don’t even know what an Eddie bear is, but this guy came up to me in this club saying you’re my Eddie bear. He’s way out of my league, but he’s been all over me.’

I’m like, keep doing whatever you’re doing, man. I think he said the reasons some people don’t think that certain body types are attractive is because they’ve never seen them before. It looks weird and odd to them, but if everyone starts taking their shirt off at the pool, if people start telling different stories and their narratives, and we start seeing more diversity and shapes, then people are going to find out they are way attracted to all different types of people. I can’t help but feel that I’m a tiny, little part in that movement because I’m showing sexuality on screen as a larger person.

Looking also allowed your reputation as an activist grow. You are now involved with several organization and non-profits focused on HIV awareness and acceptance.
I got woke on HIV really fast because my friend became HIV positive around the same time I was offered Eddie in Looking. He locked himself in his apartment and wasn’t taking his meds or taking care of himself. I was like, there has to be some delivery med service or something. So, I asked help from my friend Quinn Tivey, who is Elizabeth Taylor’s grandson.

We have been friends for several years, and I called him asking to help my friend. He said he was on his way to meet Joel Goldman, the new managing director of the Elizabeth Taylor AIDS Foundation, and to come meet him out there. The whole experience was beautiful, and Joel was like, don’t worry. I got you. Then I told him, I wasn’t supposed to say yet, that I was cast as an HIV-positive character on HBO, and he was like, this is so significant. It was all serendipitous.

Ever since we found out about HIV, the number of new infections has lowered every year. Gloria Reuben on ER had an HIV storyline, and when her storyline ended, that was the last HIV-positive series regular character on a television show for several years until Eddie. That’s a long time. Once HIV stopped being on television, cases started to rise, and it became a problem again.

People weren’t teaching it in schools; there’s not enough info, especially in the south, and there’s a comprehensive sexual education curriculum. The Elizabeth Taylors AIDS Foundation, basically what the organization does, Miss Taylor left her name, likeness, trust, jewelry, perfume, and all that money pays for operating costs. All money that is donated is given directly to someone who needs it or underwrites things. They and GLAAD built the playbook on HIV and AIDS for the media so they would know how to handle things. Like, you don’t say HIV virus because the V means virus. Little things like that they can teach the media and how to use the language.

They wanted a celebrity to propose it. So, I sat down with Ross Murray from GLAAD, and he media trained me on HIV and AIDS for, like, five hours. I learned everything I could possibly learn about the current state of HIV and AIDS. Let me tell you, I thought of myself as an educated, careful, responsible, gay man, but I didn’t know half of the information they were telling me. These are things we have learned over the years because of the initiatives of great organizations pushing the information out there. When I started Looking, this information was nowhere, and I couldn’t believe it. Looking helped open a gate because now, there are a lot of stories being told about HIV on television. Of all the work I have done in my life, helping open that gate was huge. I think it is my biggest accomplishment and achievement because we were able to get a lot more stories told.

Another exciting moment for you was guest judging season 12 of RuPaul’s Drag Race. What was that experience like?
Can you believe it? First of all, I am a super fan. I have been on the set a bunch of times before and been to every finale. I am friends with most of the people and crew from World of Wonder, and I started working with them when I did Party Monster in 2003. They were like my gay Hollywood family. So, this was 12 years coming. Believe me.

Since the first season, girl, I was like, why am I not on the show? But it finally happened. We had a huge success earlier this year with the documentary Stonewall OutLoud, and then this was sort of like another thing. They were like, let’s do it. Finally, let’s get you on. They have asked me a few times, but my schedule conflicted, but I finally got to do it and it was outrageous. I mean, I got to go to Untucked and be back behind the mirrors for a while and watch them all paint. They didn’t know I was there, and they were gossiping. They give you so much swag, and I got to hang out with Ru, Michelle, and Carson, and I got to do the runway walk and a reveal. It was amazing.

And you got to share this experience with Jonathan Bennett.
Yes! With my good Judy the whole time. We were both pinching each other. One of the awesome things about having done Mean Girls with Jonathan is that we are still friends, and we get to do all these fun things together all the time. This all came out of this one project we did together, like, 16 years ago. We have all these blessing from it, and it’s not lost on either of us. We are both very grateful people.

What’s next for you? Any other, upcoming projects we should be on the lookout for?
You know, I really don’t know what’s going on in the world, so I am delighted by this pause. Before all of this happened, I was gearing up to direct my first feature. It’s going to be a queer obsession horror. Then, I am really excited about the podcast. We are still recording; it’s getting great numbers, and people are enjoying it.

If anyone’s going to check out any episode, you should check out the Mother’s Day episode which features my mom who is hilarious and amazing. Then, you know, hopefully more funny stuff. I want to do comedy and stand up again! I want to get out there and make a movie or TV show. I’m ready to work, so hopefully when the world opens up, I will be there with open arms to receive whatever they have.

To stay up to date with Franzese, follow him on social media, or visit whatsupdanny.com.